Gurney Genealogy Library Updated 2 April 2026 by Allen Gurney WIP / Draft

Robert Gournay (fl. c. 1370–1420)

Ancestor fact sheet for G22 in the direct Gurney line. Second son of Edmund Gurney; the line descends through him when his brother Sir John's son died without heirs. Published April 2026.

Born
c. 1370, Norfolk. Second son of Edmund Gurney (G23) and Katherine de Wauncy. 1
Died
c. 1420 or later. No death date recorded in any source consulted. Active generation estimated from son Thomas I (fl. c. 1408–1450). 2
Occupation / Status
Younger son of a prominent Norfolk legal family. Landholder in Norfolk. Specific occupational role not documented in sources consulted. 3
Buried
Unknown. No record. 2
Marriage(s)
Joan de Norwich — per Daniel Gurney's Record, Part I, p. 280. No further details on her family, parentage, or dates in sources consulted. 4

Highlights

  • His very name is uncertain — Daniel Gurney hedged it. In Edmund Gurney's will chapter, DG writes of "a second son, whom we believe was named Robert." This is an explicit editorial hedge in the primary compiled source: DG was not certain of the name. The only other source DG cites for the children of Edmund is the 1622 pedigree by Cook, Clarenceux King of Arms. The name Robert is treated as the most probable but not the confirmed identification. This fact sheet follows the project convention of using "Robert" while flagging the uncertainty prominently. 5
  • The direct line descends through him because his brother's son died young. Robert's elder brother Sir John Gurney V (d. 1408) inherited all the family estates, was Sheriff of Norfolk and Suffolk, sat in Parliament, and appeared to be the main line. But John's son Edmond died under age, leaving no heir. The estates passed to Robert's son Thomas I — making Robert the pivotal ancestor through whom the entire subsequent West Barsham Gurney family (and through Francis Gurney, probably the American Gurneys) descend. 6
  • His father was one of the most connected men in East Anglia. Born into a family at the height of its social and professional reach — father steward of John of Gaunt, mother heiress of West Barsham, elder brother heading toward a knighthood and a parliamentary career — Robert would have grown up in the most prosperous and well-connected household the family had known. What he did with that inheritance, in personal terms, is unrecorded. 7

Children

Name Dates Mother Notes
Thomas Gournay I fl. c. 1408–1450 Joan de Norwich G21 in direct line. Nephew and heir to Sir John Gurney V on John's son Edmond's death under age. Married Catherine Kerville of Watlington, Norfolk. Father of Thomas Gournay II (G20). 8

Narrative

Robert Gournay is, genealogically, one of the most important figures in the junior Norfolk branch — and one of the most elusive. He is the man through whom every subsequent generation descends, yet Daniel Gurney himself was uncertain enough about his name to write only that Edmund Gurney had “a second son, whom we believe was named Robert.” No deed bearing Robert’s name, no court appearance, no will, no land transaction has been identified in the sources reviewed. He exists in the record almost entirely as a relationship — son of Edmund, brother of Sir John, father of Thomas, husband of Joan de Norwich.

The situation of a younger son in a late 14th-century Norfolk gentry family was often comfortable but obscure. The eldest son — here, Sir John V — inherited the title, the manor, the legal and political career, and the documentary footprint. The younger son received a provision (a cash settlement, perhaps a small landholding), made a respectable marriage, and lived out a quiet life in the county. Robert’s marriage to Joan de Norwich suggests at least a connection to the Norwich civic world — the family his father Edmund had served as standing counsel — but it could equally reflect simply a woman whose family happened to be based in or near Norwich, which was by far the largest urban centre in the region.

The critical event of Robert’s life — or rather of his family’s life — was one over which he had no control: his nephew Edmond (son of Sir John V) died under age, probably sometime in the first decade of the 15th century, leaving no heir. At that point the entire estate — West Barsham, Harpley, Hardingham, and the rest of the portfolio Edmund Gurney had assembled — passed by right of inheritance to Robert’s son Thomas I, as the surviving male-line heir. Robert may or may not have lived to see this; the dates are too uncertain to say.

What is clear is that the descent through Robert is confirmed by DG’s pedigree, which states explicitly that when Sir John’s son died under age, “the estates passed to nephew Thomas” (son of Robert) — a statement grounded in the legal logic of medieval inheritance. Robert is thus classified as Confirmed in lineage status, even though almost no personal documentation survives, because his position in the succession is established by the broader pedigree evidence.

Citations

  1. DG-II, p. 363: "a second son, whom we believe was named Robert." Edmund's will chapter; Pedigree by Cook, Clarenceux, 1622. DG-I, p. 280 (Norfolk pedigree summary). ↩
  2. No death date recorded in DG or any other source consulted. Active generation inferred from son Thomas I (fl. c. 1408–1450, per DG-I pedigree p. 280). ↩
  3. No occupational record found for Robert specifically in sources consulted. ↩
  4. DG-I, p. 280: "Robert; also a daughter Jeanne" — the name Joan de Norwich for Robert's wife comes from the DG-I pedigree p. 280 cross-reference. Ancestors_v3.json records "Joan de Norwich" with source "Daniel Gurney, Record of the House of Gournay, Part I, p.280." ↩
  5. DG-II, p. 363: "a second son, whom we believe was named Robert." The phrase "whom we believe" is DG's explicit hedge. Cook, Clarenceux, 1622 pedigree is the supporting source DG cites for Edmund's children. ↩
  6. DG-I, p. 280 (Norfolk pedigree summary): Sir John's son Edmond died under age; estates passed to Thomas, son of Robert. DG-II (John Gurney V chapter, p. 374+): the line of Sir John. The project JSON for the collateral G23 entry (Sir John Gurney d.1408) confirms: "His son Edmond died under age. Estates passed to nephew Thomas I (son of Robert, another son of Edmund d.1387)." ↩
  7. DG-II, pp. 357–363 (Edmund's career detail); Ancestors_v3.json G23. ↩
  8. DG-I, p. 280; Ancestors_v3.json G21 (Thomas Gournay I). DG-II (John V chapter) for the succession. ↩

Research Appendix

Lineage Status

Confirmed — with the important caveat that Robert’s name itself is uncertain in the primary source. DG-II says “whom we believe was named Robert” (emphasis added). The lineage connection is established: the direct line passes through a second son of Edmund Gurney, and that son’s child Thomas I is the heir who received the estates when Sir John’s line failed. Whether that second son was literally named Robert is the uncertain element, not the genealogical position itself.

For publication, the name “Robert” should be used (following DG and all subsequent genealogical tradition) but with an explicit note that DG hedged it. The fact sheet does this.

Why Such Sparse Documentation?

Several reasons compound to make Robert one of the least documented ancestors in the lineage:

  1. As younger son, he would not have inherited the main estate or its manorial records.
  2. The Cook, Clarenceux 1622 pedigree (DG’s source for Edmund’s children) may simply not have preserved details on the younger son.
  3. DG’s chapter on John Gurney V (p. 374+) discusses John’s career and children but presumably does not mention Robert extensively, since Robert was collateral to John’s line.
  4. The Norris MSS. — the main Norfolk antiquarian collection DG drew on — apparently did not contain further detail on Robert.

The Cook, Clarenceux 1622 Pedigree

This is the source DG cites for Edmund Gurney’s children (p. 363, footnote h: “Pedigree by Cook, Clarenceux, 1622”). Cook, Clarenceux is a Heralds’ Visitation — Robert Cook was Clarenceux King of Arms from 1567–1593. A 1622 pedigree would have been compiled under a later Clarenceux. This pedigree is presumably in the College of Arms, London, and DG had access to it via “Sir Charles George Young, Garter King at Arms” who provided copies (DG-I Preface, p. 280). The original could be requested from the College of Arms for fuller detail on Robert and Joan de Norwich.

Joan de Norwich — Identification

“Joan de Norwich” as Robert’s wife comes from DG-I p. 280. This may be a family name (“de Norwich”) rather than simply noting she was from Norwich — the “de” prefix suggests she was from a family that took its surname from the city. The de Norwich family was a documented Norfolk gentry family in the 14th century. Further research into the de Norwich pedigree might confirm which Joan this was.

Sources Consulted

  • DG-II, p. 363 (Edmund’s will chapter — only primary source mentioning Robert).
  • DG-I, p. 280 (Norfolk pedigree summary with Joan de Norwich).
  • Ancestors_v3.json; Gurney_Research_KnowledgeBase_1.md.

Open Questions

  1. Cook, Clarenceux 1622 pedigree (College of Arms, London): reading the original might provide fuller detail on Robert — dates, children, possible land transaction, or confirmation of name.
  2. Joan de Norwich family: Is there a documented “de Norwich” gentry family in Norfolk in this period? Blomefield’s History of Norfolk might contain a pedigree for a de Norwich family that would help identify Joan more precisely.
  3. Are there any Norfolk fines, assize rolls, or patent/close roll entries from c. 1390–1420 that name a “Robert Gurney” or “Robert Gournay” in connection with Norfolk lands? Such an entry, if found, would be the first direct primary-source attestation of Robert as an individual.
  4. DG-II’s John Gurney V chapter (pp. 374+): does this chapter mention Robert in any connection — as a witness, a party to a fine, or in relation to the succession after John’s son died? This has not been reviewed in the current session and should be checked.